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Post by rangerone on Aug 23, 2014 22:00:43 GMT -5
Had a very nice BBQ today, doing a couple of chickens and some corn. We decided to try a new rub, and so we only put it on one of the chickens, and left the other one with no rub at all. Used Maple Leaf Briquets, 2 chunks of cherry wood, grill temperature of 225F - 235F, and the total cook time was 4.5 hours with an internal temperature of 183F for the chicken. I know the Smokenator so well now, that I can set up my kettle and get the exact temperature I want with little or no extra adjustments needed. Below is the cook at the half way point when we added the corn.  Here is the un-rubbed chicken when it was done.  Here is some rubbed chicken plated with the corn.  The chicken was very good, but both Susan and I decided that the new rub was not all that great. I do not think we will use that one again. The dark meat was perfect, but i found the white meat a touch on the dry side. Not sure why the white meat was like this. We saved the un-rubbed chicken for tomorrow. The corn was fantastic!! Usually, we would soak the corn in water for about 1-2 hours then smoke them in the husks. This was a recipe we found on the web. This time we just smoked them naked, and no pre-soaking in water. Same cook time of about 2 hours at 225F for both methods. I will stick with this easier method from now on. Much more smokey goodness. Allan aka RangerOne |
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Post by ncsmoker on Aug 24, 2014 0:07:54 GMT -5
Hey Allan it looks good. Trying new rubs is part of the fun unfortunately not always successful. I use a parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme, salt and pepper rub on poultry now with a little adobe pepper in it. I mix it with butter and put it under the skin also. The 183 temp for the chicken was your down fall for your white meat. I don't know where you put your probe but I don't take chicken more than 165 in the thigh or 170 in the breast. Then I let it rest for 15-20 minutes covered with foil, this again lets the juices redistribute and the temps will go up about 5 degrees.
Tom aka NC
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Post by rangerone on Aug 24, 2014 13:44:38 GMT -5
Hi Tom, I agree that trying new rubs is fun, but not always successful. This one was not bad, just too much sage for my wife and too bland for me. We have found a store bought rub that we both really like, but it was sold out last week. I would love to be able to reverse engineer that rub, but so far I have had no success. I put the probe in the breast, and my cook books all say that the safe internal temperature for chicken is 180F - 185F (Smoke & Spice is one I have been using quite a bit). I have always found the white meat of chicken or turkey to be dry, and that is why I have always preferred the dark meat. My wife thought is was perfect. It may be that it is just me, however, there are a few things I have never tried to do before that may help. If anyone has personal experience with any of these methods, I would love to hear what you have to say. Allan aka RangerOne |
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Post by ncsmoker on Aug 24, 2014 16:44:18 GMT -5
Hi Allan here is a chart put out by the Federal Government - Department of Agriculture for safe internal temperatures for various meats. As you see whole turkey and chicken are both at 165. Most recipes over state the temp so they can't be sued but it can result in overcooked meat. All bacteria and other bad things are killed by a temp of 145. www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/UCM260394.pdf Hope this gives you a little more understanding. Tom aka NC |
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Post by rangerone on Aug 24, 2014 21:00:43 GMT -5
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Post by pilfjd on Aug 24, 2014 21:18:06 GMT -5
Tom is right. White meat at 185 is overcooked, dark meat at that temp is slightly overcooked at well. I always cook white meat to 165 when roasting hot-and-fast (pan/oven/grill). See the following article about low temperature chicken cooking: www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/sous-vide-basics-low-temperature-chicken.htmlThe chart in the article explains it all, at 165 bacteria is instantaneously killed which is why the FDA recommends cooking poultry to that temperature. Great looking meal, btw. |
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Post by ncsmoker on Aug 24, 2014 23:06:15 GMT -5
Allan, I'm having a hard time recognizing the difference between the whole and the parts temps in the chart for the poultry in the Canadian chart. An 8lb. breast of turkey as a part would be okay at 165 while a 4 lb. whole chicken would need to be cooked to 185 or cut it in half and you can use the 165 degree temp.. It just doesn't make sense. I worked for a Canadian company here in the states for 25 years and often saw some of these idiosnycrosies . I'll leave it up to you but I have never had any one get sick by taking a chicken or turkey off at 165-170 and covering it with foil while I finish dinner, and it is much more juicy. I usually smoke a 14lb turkey for our Thanksgiving day and Christmas.
Jay good post.
The turkey breast I took off at 170 today and wrapped in foil was pure white all the way to the bone.
Allan have gone to my Weber cook books and they recommend taking off whole chicken when the temp at the thickest part of the thigh at 160-165. After taking it off they say the temp will raise 5-10 degrees.
Tom aka NC
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Post by rangerone on Aug 25, 2014 7:41:59 GMT -5
Hello Jay and Tom. Thank you for the replies. I will just start off by letting you know, I have two meats that I am very careful about. Poultry and fish. I was seriously sick from eating fish, and mildly sick from turkey in the past. Both times were from restaurants, and both required medication for me to recover. It was over 25 years ago, but you don't forget this kind of stuff. Tom, it is a very well know fact that a whole chicken does not cook as fast or as even as chicken pieces. That big hollow cavity is part of the reason. The Serious Eats site Jay provided explains why this is so. That site recommends the best preparation is to butterfly the chicken to promote even cooking. I have heard it referred to as spatchthingyed chicken in Canada. Jay, I am aware of the time and temperature versus temperature only cooking philosophy, and I agree with it 100%. Again, I think this applies more to pieces or solid meat, and less to a whole chicken or turkey with a big hollow cavity in the middle. This just may be my fear of eating undercooked poultry, but I have read enough information to justify my fear. No amount of data will make me knowingly eat chicken cooked to 140F. I have avoided spatchthingyed chickens in the past for the following reasons: - Buying the chicken already spatchthingyed is more money.
- Spatchthingying it myself is extra work.
- Spatchthingyed chickens take up more room on the grill.
However, next time I do whole chicken on the smoker I will spatchthingy them and bring the breast temperature to 165F and let you guys know the results. This method should reduce the total cooking time as well. Baby steps for me. Allan aka RangerOne |
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Post by rangerone on Aug 25, 2014 9:19:09 GMT -5
OH MY GOD this is TOO funny. Apparently there is a naughty word filter at work here. The correct term in the above post is not "Spatchthingy". It seems the filter has replaced the offensive word with "thingy". The correct word is SOCK with the S being a C. Normally I like these types of filters to keep the conversations clean, but this is going a bit too far. I will test my theory with the following quote.
"And the thingy crowed 3 times."
Allan aka RangerOne
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Post by pilfjd on Aug 25, 2014 9:28:20 GMT -5
Good points about whole chicken, Allan. The cavity can be a problem, especially when it is stuffed since stuffing can significantly affect cook times. I, too, wouldn't eat chicken that was at 140 for hours even if it's tested to be sterilized... The texture of the meat isn't quite right.
I hear you about getting sick off of food and how it affects you for quite some time. I got food poisoning from bad shrimp 15 yrs ago and to this day I can't eat it unless I've done it myself or I'm at a highly reputable establishment. I won't eat it at a house party or catered event, ever.
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Post by pilfjd on Aug 25, 2014 9:30:22 GMT -5
LOL I was wondering why you were calling it spatchthingy. I thought it was because you couldn't recall the name of the technique. :-D
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Post by ncsmoker on Aug 25, 2014 16:43:00 GMT -5
Allan understand your wariness now and don't blame you at all. My wife got food poisoning from fish and won't eat it unless I cook it or we catch and cook it. I never stuff a chicken or turkey on the grill and either brine or use a water added turkey and chicken as the water carries the heat through the meat more evenly. I to would never eat 140 degree poultry, doesn't even sound good. While I take a chicken or turkey off at 165-170 I always tent with HD foil this allows the internal temp to increase about 5 degrees for a chicken and 10 degrees for a whole turkey 5 for a breast.
LOL the spatchthingy was funny.
Tom aka NC
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