Grate Temp & Internal Meat Temp Questions

[strcdply]

First of all I want to thank the Thompsons for how fast they delivered my order, and all of the startup information. It was very helpful. Thanks also to all the forum members, I learned a lot before the Smokenator even arrived.

So I had my first cooking session with the Smokenator today. I tried a spatchthingyed chicken. Due to some of the posts here and the plethora of posts on "rubbery" chicken skin on other forums, I wanted to try the following method:

Cook the chicken @ 250 Degrees until internal temperature is 155 degrees then bump up to ~350-375 to crisp the skin until breast internal temperature was ~170-175. The problem was that I couldn't get the grate temperature to rise above 256 degrees.

I made sure the chicken was at room temperature before cooking. I used a drip pan filled 3/4 of the way with water, and I used binder clamps to prevent leakage. After attaching the binder clamps, I checked to make sure there were no leakage of smoke at the rim. Meat and grate probes were inserted through the bottom vents. Bottom vents were wide open for the entire session. I did not flip the chicken at all. My digital thermometer (Maverick ET-73) is brand new and this is the first use (I know that probes can have a short life especially if exposed to high temperatures.) I'm in Houston, TX (today was high 90's 53% humidity with minimal wind)

Here's my time & temperature log for this session (The bottom vent was wide open:)

Activity	Top Vent Measurement (in)	Time	Food Grate Temperature	Meat Temperature	Notes
Light Coals - 16 lit coals to be added to 44 unlit coals in Smokenator with 4 mesquite wood chunks estimated visually for the 4 oz that Don suggests as a starting point	N/A	5:19	N/A	N/A	LOL. I tried the upside down method of lighting the 16 briquettes with the chimney starter; The newspaper kept falling down and not lighting the coals. This was the high point of frustration for me. I finally got it to work by flipping it back right side up and using a piece of foil to cover the area at the bottom of the chimney where there were no coals. This allowed the newspaper to slow down its burn to actually light the 16 coals. I'll post a pic below.
Added 16 lit coals to Smokenator. Placed Lid on Weber Kettle	11/16	5:31	N/A	N/A	I currently do not own a candy thermometer to measure the dome temperature. All of the posts regarding dome/grate temperature ranges were so varied that I decided to get the Maverick ET-73, instead of estimating grate temperature from known dome temperature. I'll probably get one anyway since I never trust one piece of technology not to break down on me. (I wanted to get the bbqguru, but since I'm just starting out on smoking, I didn't want to "cheat" off the bat.)
	11/16	5:53	230	N/A	22 minutes later and I'm past 225 already. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it taking too long to come up to temperature for most smoking applications, i.e., grate temp = 225, with the variables similar to today.
Placed chicken on food grate. Placed meat probe in thigh.	11/16	6:00	250		Since this was spatchthingyed. The thigh was touching the grate. I'm used to using the thigh as part of the chicken to measure doneness, but I think the way the probe was sitting, I was suspicious that the measurement was off. Due to my paranoia regarding the meat temperature being off, you'll see further down the table that I eventually moved the probe to the breast
	11/16	6:06	234	106	It's only been 6 minutes and my meat probe already registered at 106 degrees (Is this normal? I only had the chicken out of the fridge for 45 minutes to achieve room temperature. Is this too long? Ambient temperature in my house is ~75-77) I left it alone for awhile to see if my probe was having whacked out jumps in temperature. Notice how after I put the chicken (~ 4lbs) on, the temperature dropped only 16 degrees in 6 minutes and climbed back up later in 9 minutes from chicken placement time to 248. It would be interesting to see others' experience with the temperature right before meat placement, amount of meat in lbs placed, and the time it took to recover to ideal cooking temp.
I was worried that the temperature was going to spike with it being 11/16 so I closed it some	8/16	6:09	248	115
LOL. Then I changed my mind and increased the upper vent	10/16	6:11	248	121
Added water to water pan.	10/16	6:13	247	128
Opened just a bit more to see if temperature will rise	11/16	6:15	242	129
	11/16	6:30	235	146
Opened upper vent "wide open" (WO)	WO	6:31	235	148
Moved meat probe from thigh to breast AND added two small chunks of mesquite	WO	6:39	242	154
	WO	6:42	210	135	Notice the 19 degree drop when I moved the probe from the thigh to the breast.
	WO	6:46	240	141
Stirred coals. Added 3 little wood chunks. Added water.	WO	6:54	253	149
	WO	7:17	252	165
Pulled chicken	WO	7:29	256	173	I let the chicken rest for 15 minutes before cutting it up.

Lighting the 16 briquettes with chimney right side up with foil in chimney to allow newspaper to slow down its burning process to allow coals to light:


Here's what it looked like @ breast internal temperature of 173 degrees:


Assessment:

1) Skin was not rubbery, definitely edible but not crispy (I expected the non crispy skin with all of the discussions (here and at other forums) regarding rubbery chicken skin directly related to cooking chicken at low temperatures)
2) Chicken was very moist. Even more moist than any beer can chicken I've done in the oven.
3) Did not taste too smoky even though I used mesquite chunks.
4) Water in water pan was boiling when I checked it.
5) As expected, I never had to add additional charcoal.

Questions:

1) Are others in similar climates seeing this problem of getting the grate temp past a certain point?
2) Should I take the water pan out to try to achieve that 300-350 range?
3) Is the amount of water in the drip pan a factor in the kettle not reaching the 300 range?
4) Does the temperature measurements during the time that the probe was present in the thigh realistic, i.e., was it likely a user error on my part?


Thanks,
strcdply

[lytefly]

Aug 24, 2009 1:20:40 GMT -5 strcdply said:

Questions:

1) Are others in similar climates seeing this problem of getting the grate temp past a certain point?
2) Should I take the water pan out to try to achieve that 300-350 range?
3) Is the amount of water in the drip pan a factor in the kettle not reaching the 300 range?
4) Does the temperature measurements during the time that the probe was present in the thigh realistic, i.e., was it likely a user error on my part?


Thanks,
strcdply

My thoughts:

1) I am in a similar climate and have no issue with getting the grate temp up. The biggest issue is likely #2.
2) The water definitely contributes to keeping the temps down in the grill. I have only done one chicken and I did not use the water tray and had no issue getting temps up.
3) I do not believe the drip pan has much influence on the temps (unlike the water tray and its steam).
4) Tough to say. You just need to make sure the probe is set in the thigh properly and does not touch any bones.

With respect to dome temperature. I no longer care what it is. Cook to what the temp is at the grate.

[strcdply]

"2) The water definitely contributes to keeping the temps down in the grill. I have only done one chicken and I did not use the water tray and had no issue getting temps up."
-Thanks for your response. I will definitely try this on my "crisping" phase of the cook next time.

"With respect to dome temperature. I no longer care what it is. Cook to what the temp is at the grate."
-I hear you. I just have a distrust for the Maverick ET-73's probe due to all of the bad reviews on amazon. I want to have mechanisms to sanity check the various temperature values, i.e., food grate and meat; maybe a dome thermometer is not the best tool for that purpose.

[lytefly]

Currently I am quite confident in my ET-73. Test it:

1) Bring a pot with about 3" of water to a boil and insert the probe. It should read about 212F.

2) Fill a tall glass with ice cubes, not crushed ice, add cold water, and let it sit a minute. Insert the probe and make sure it is not below the ice or touching the ice. The temp below the ice can be several degrees above 32F (0C) and the temp of the ice can be below 32F. I've never actually done this one, only the boiling water.

Check both of the probes.

I have found such a big variance from Dome to Grate that I only rely on grate. Confirm your ET-73 is accurate and get to smokin'! Good Luck!

[bigsteve]

Great looking chicken!

[strcdply]

lytefly, thanks for the advice on the probe testing. i will do this before my next cook.

bigsteve, your previous responses surrounding avoiding rubbery chicken to other peoples' posts on this forum peaked my curiosity. I went and researched at thesmokering for every post on "rubbery" they had there. it took me 3 days to read and take notes on everyone's opinion on "rubbery" skin. thanks for the compliments, i'm determined to have chicken that is both juicy, properly smoked, with a crispy skin.

[lytefly]

I did a beer can chicken, the only chicken I have done so far. I did not use the water tray and cooked around 350-375. I did a dry rub on the chicken and basted towards the end with some garlic butter. All trying to get the skin crispy.

The chicken came out wonderful, but the skin was somewhere in between a normal roast chicken and the crispy I wanted. It was not rubbery at all and had great flavor.

I think I have read a number of the same things you have and I've decided to go for some direct heat at the end to crisp the skin. Without firing up another grill, I may take the chicken up, remove the smokenator, and let the coals fall so I can put some direct heat on the skin. I do this with ribs to "char" the BBQ sauce at the end. I just love that.

I also read somewhere that if you place the chicken in the fridge for 24 or so hours uncovered, the cool will pull some of the moisture out of the skin and it will allow the skin to crisp nicely, sounds plausible I suppose.

[strcdply]

"remove the smokenator, and let the coals fall so I can put some direct heat on the skin. I do this with ribs to "char" the BBQ sauce at the end. I just love that."
-good idea. let us know how it goes if you ever do this; specifically i'd like to know if you notice uneveness of crispness with this method

"I also read somewhere that if you place the chicken in the fridge for 24 or so hours uncovered, the cool will pull some of the moisture out of the skin and it will allow the skin to crisp nicely, sounds plausible I suppose."
-do you recommend doing this prior to adding the EVOO and rub?

[strcdply]

found this:
www.virtualweberbullet.com/chicken4.html

he talks about the following:
-drying chicken in the fridge
-cooking at higher temps
-crisping the skin at the end on hot coals in relation to the state of the fat under the skin

the pics look great. my question is at these high temps, is the smoke flavor penetrating the chicken?

[lytefly]

Aug 25, 2009 23:09:17 GMT -5 strcdply said:

found this:
www.virtualweberbullet.com/chicken4.html

he talks about the following:
-drying chicken in the fridge
-cooking at higher temps
-crisping the skin at the end on hot coals in relation to the state of the fat under the skin

the pics look great. my question is at these high temps, is the smoke flavor penetrating the chicken?

Yep, those are the primary things I've read that will help with crisping the skin. When I did my beer can chicken, it would probably be more appropriate to say I cooked it indirectly rather than smoked it. I didn't use any wood and I didn't use a water tray.

I would think if you cook the chicken at the higher temps, the cooking time will be reduced and smoke penetration would be reduced as well. I guess that would also depend on how much smoke you throw at it.

Hey, give it a shot this weekend and let us know ;D

[jimedd2]

Just bought a ET-73 and plan to use it this W.E. on ribs, I don"t want to use the meat probe, only the cooking grate probe, can I leave the meat probe unplugged? or does it need to be plugged in and left on the grill? Any help with this will be appreciated.

[lytefly]

Aug 27, 2009 19:41:55 GMT -5 jimedd2 said:

I don"t want to use the meat probe, only the cooking grate probe, can I leave the meat probe unplugged? or does it need to be plugged in and left on the grill? Any help with this will be appreciated.

You do not have to plug it in. You can use either one or both. I think you will love this little gadget! Good luck with the ribs!

[strcdply]

Hey, give it a shot this weekend and let us know ;D

2nd attempt:

after cutting up chicken, i cleaned with a 1Cup Vinegar /3 Qt Water mixture, rinsed and patted dry. I decided to brine (the recipe i used i thought was slightly on the salty side to my taste;) brined for 4 hours, patted dry and air dried in the fridge for approximately 24 hrs. slathered with peanut oil and applied rub. upper and bottom vents were wide open the whole time; water pan was removed. 44 unlit briquettes; 16 lit briquettes. stabilized temperature range: 345 - 369. pulled at 175 in breast (1st attempt I pulled @ 170 in the breast <<< a little undone for my taste) which took around 45 minutes

chicken before air drying:


chicken after air drying:


finished product:


Assessment:

1) Skin is definitely crispier than my oven beer can chicken but I was not blown away. ;D
2) I was surprised that there was plenty of smoke flavor in the meat, even though it was such a short cook time; used hickory chunks again.
3) Even with the 4 hr brine it was still not as moist as the first attempt without brining and with the water tray; granted i pulled 5 degrees warmer on this attempt.

btw i did the 3in boiling water test and both probes were off by 2 degrees. i had a cheaper digital thermometer that read 212 during those tests. i now plan to do the water test the day before.

[lytefly]

I must say that the chicken looks Great!! Looks like you had a plan and executed it well. Kudos for that! I think you will have to try putting the chicken, skin down, over direct heat at the end to crisp up the skin. It shouldn't take long and you will need to make sure you don't over cook or burn it. I really think you are close to where you want to be. Keep at it!

[strcdply]

I must say that the chicken looks Great!! Looks like you had a plan and executed it well. Kudos for that!"

-thanks man.

I think you will have to try putting the chicken, skin down, over direct heat at the end to crisp up the skin. It shouldn't take long and you will need to make sure you don't over cook or burn it. I really think you are close to where you want to be. Keep at it!"

-this will be the technique i will introduce when I do chicken next. i like your idea of taking the smokenator out and direct heating that way.

on a side note, i head a meat probe scare during this session. i typically run the probes up through the bottem vent. during the "getting up to temperature" portion, i always leave the meat probe hanging outside the kettle, to where it doesn't touch the kettle, until i'm ready to place the meat in the kettle :


also, my earlier post states that I used hickory. what I intended to say was that I useds mesquite again.